Subject: My Thoughts About Incest
Story Codes: nosex
Updated: August 3, 2016
Author: Kelly <pghp_girl@yahoo.com>
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!!!WARNING!!!!
This file contains sexually explicit material which may include graphic
depictions of underage, nonconsensual and unprotected sex as well as
incest, adultery, sodomy and bestiality. It is distributed on a website
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strictly forbidden. If you are not legally empowered to be in possession
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This work is copyrighted 2016 to the author. It may be posted to non-
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Summary
=======
It's amazing how many guys (and yes, often guys pretending to be women)
ask me for my advice on how to start an incestuous relationship.
Sometimes it's about a cousin or sibling, but usually it's a father
wanting me to tell him how to initiate a sexual relationship with his
daughter. You may be surprised to learn that I don't support incest in
the majority of these situations!
This article is NOT meant to promote OR discourage incest but rather to
raise the awareness of some of the issue involved and give my opinions
about them. Hopefully I can explain a side to incest that's different
from what most people know and at the same time help people to realize
how wonderful incest can be - under the right circumstances.
Disclaimer: This article deals primarily with incest between fathers and
daughters as I have no personal experience with incestual
relationships between mothers and sons other than my husband
and his mother.
Table of Contents
=================
Chapter 1 - Definitions
Chapter 2 - General Rules for Sex
Chapter 3 - Some General Thoughts About Incest
Chapter 4 - Reasons for NOT Having Incest
Chapter 5 - Issues to be Addressed Before Incest
Chapter 6 - The Benefits of Incest
Chapter 7 - Questions and Answers About Incest
Chapter 1 - Definitions
=======================
Obviously these definitions aren't exactly from the dictionary but rather
are based on my own perspectives using the principles and concepts that
guide my life and actions. No doubt your spouse, family, friends,
church, and local authorities may have different opinions.
When discussing these sort of topics I find a lot of people misunderstand
what I mean when I use certain phrases or words so before discussing this
topic any further, a few definitions are in order. Remember that these
are MY definitions which dictate how I lead MY life so if yours are
different then while reading this, try to remember what mine are before
you make any judgments.
Sex: The penetration, however slight, of a female vagina by a male
penis. Once ANY part of a penis is in, even if it's just the very
tip, it's as good as ALL in so far as the act is concerned. Even
if the hymen remains intact it's still sex.
Virgin: Someone who has never engaged in sex (as defined above). For a
girl this has nothing to do with the status of her hymen as many
girls break their hymen through sports or other activities such
using sex toys yet they remain virgins until they have sex. It
doesn't matter if the penis doesn't go in far enough to break the
hymen - she's no longer a virgin from the moment the tip of the
penis penetrates her vagina. Thus those men who get off pushing
the tip of their dick into little girls so they can cum in them
are also taking her virginity. So in the end, there is no true
"test" for a girl's virginity, no different than for boys.
Family: The members of your immediate family out to and including aunts,
uncles and first cousins whether by blood OR marriage. That's a
VERY important distinction in that DNA doesn't makes a family but
rather it's the relationships that count. For instance, if
someone is adopted then they become part of your family. When
two people marry, their families are merged into one based on
their marital relationship and all are treated as members of the
same family.
Incest: The act of sex between members of the same family. Thus based on
my definition of family, sex between in-laws is incest. If two
people marry and each has kids from a former marriage then sex
between their step-children would now become incestual whereas it
wasn't before they got married. Incest is all about the family
regardless of how that family was created.
Adultery: When a married person has sex with someone not in their family
with the intent of cheating on their spouse. There are three
elements of which ALL of which must be met to "commit"
adultery...
1) It's the INTENT that determines whether sex becomes
Adultery, not the act. If you're not cheating on YOUR
spouse, then YOU are not committing adultery.
2) You can't commit adultery unless you're married. If you're
single and have sex with a married person without the
consent of their spouse, THEY are the ones committing
adultery, not you.
3) Incestual sex does not constitute adultery as by
definition, sex is already "approved" between family
members.
Oral "Sex": At its core, sex is fundamentally a reproductive act even
though most of the time that's not the intended purpose. Thus by
definition "oral sex" is NOT sex. Because it's NOT sex, engaging
in "oral sex" cannot be considered adultery OR incest. Note that
by using the same logic, "anal sex" is not sex either.
Underage: A general term for anyone under the age of eighteen. I realize
that "age of consent" varies between states and countries but for
purposes of this article, the following age ranges are used:
Infant: 1-7
Child: 8-10
Preteen: 11-12
Teen: 13-17
Adult: 18 and older
While ages 1-7 is certainly not a good overall definition for "infant",
it works so far as this article as anyone in this age bracket is treated
the same so far as sexual activities are concerned.
Chapter 2 - General Rules for Sex
=================================
There is a fine line between incest and child abuse so when there is ANY
question at all, I believe the more conservative response is always best.
Here is my "Top Ten" list of basic rules that I believe EVERYONE should
follow, regardless of whether the situation involves incest or not:
1. When considering incest, you MUST be 100% sure about it. If not,
DON'T DO IT.
2. If your daughter (or ANY girl for that matter) says "no", that means
"NO". It doesn't matter if "she asked for it" or you think "she
really wants it", DON'T DO IT.
3. If you have to rationalize what you want to do then DON'T DO IT.
4. If sex with your daughter doesn't feel right then IT'S NOT.
5. If you can't tell your wife about your feelings then don't tell your
daughter either and certainly DON'T act on them.
6. DO NOT have sex with your daughter behind your wife's back. If you
have to hide it from your wife, DON'T DO IT.
7. If you think your daughter might be too young for sex then SHE IS.
8. If you're not sure your daughter's ready for sex then SHE ISN'T.
9. Just because your daughter flirts with you it does NOT mean that she
wants to have sex with you. In fact, odds are she'd be appalled if
she knew you thought that she did. Don't confuse trust with lust. If
she's not crossing the line on her own then DON'T DO IT.
10. Porn movies, erotic stories and "adult" Internet sites DO NOT reflect
reality. Don't expect the same reaction from your daughter as from
the so-called "daughters" on the Internet. They are whores having sex
with paid actors.
Chapter 3 - Some General Thoughts About Incest
==============================================
Of all the subjects I discuss, incest is the one that gets the most
responses as people generally have strong opinions about it. As a rule,
I find it's a pretty polarizing subject in that they're either turned on
by it or totally disgusted without much in between. Unfortunately I've
also found that most people's knowledge of "true" incest is derived from
what they were taught as children, heard preached in church, read in the
newspapers, discussed with their friends or worst of all - seen on
internet porn sites. Very few people have actual knowledge of a family
that practices incest as it should be.
It's amazing to me how many people have told me that just because I have
sex with my family I'm either perverted or a victim of child molestation.
Even if they finally acknowledge that it might actually be something that
I truly WANT to do, they still claim that I've been brainwashed or that I
was "groomed" by evil parents who just wanted to satisfy their disgusting
sexual perversions. NONE of this, or anything remotely similar to it,
could be farther from the truth. I have sex with my family because I
WANT to and nobody has ever forced or coerced me to do anything.
Historically incest has been taboo in most cultures for two very good
reasons - genetics and child exploitation. Even though our ancestors
knew nothing about DNA, they did know that kids born out of extended
incestual relationships were often not quite "right" and so there must be
something inherently wrong with such a custom. Like many good
practices, such as avoiding certain foods, etc., these became engrained
in their laws and religion which provided the authority for society to
enforce the taboo.
Today, with the multitude of options available for birth control in
addition to the means to end an unwanted pregnancy (please, no debates on
abortion here), the foundation for the case against incest has largely
crumbled. However, these ancient taboos have become so engrained in
society and religion that most people cannot see beyond their life-long
indoctrination and thus are unable to consider incest from a rationale
perspective.
The other problem is the second excuse used to ban incest - child abuse.
I totally agree that all children MUST be protected. It's an
unfortunate fact of life that there are many screwed-up people out there
who are empowered and gratified through the act of abusive sex with
children - some ridiculously young. This easily leads to a situation
where a child can be coerced into performing acts they're not mature
enough to understand nor truly consent to participating in. Because
incest is one of the most common rationalizations used by these perverts,
it's probably the most powerful argument against incest - at least so far
as younger children are concerned. It's also why I don't believe incest
should be legalized and publically accepted.
Over the years I've chatted with a lot of people on-line and it's
generally been a fun experience although I've had to ignore more than few
blatant perverts and jerks. Most people claim they are open-minded and
have no problems with casual sex, especially if it was with me! Some say
they want to cheat on their spouse while others want me to join them with
their spouse and still others want me be to be with just their hubby or
wife while they watch. Many couples claim to be looking for someone to
make a three-some although I found that most of these "couples" are just
fakes. Along those lines I've had quite a few people who are really into
the kinky stuff including children and animals. The point I'm trying to
make is that I try to respect other people's feelings and desires, even
if I'm not especially turned on by them or even personally offended. For
the most part, everyone else claims to feel the same way yet amazingly
they then draw the line at incest. So let's see... fucking dogs and
underage kids is good but having a loving relationship with my mom and
dad that involves sex is bad. Hmmmmmm... what am I missing here?
There are many things in life that are fulfilling and pleasurable when
handled properly yet they can also be easily abused and can be extremely
harmful. Alcohol, gambling and sex come to mind immediately. Let me say
right from the start that I firmly believe that incest is NOT for
everyone. In fact only a small minority of families are in situations
where this can be healthy.
What I DO know from my own experiences is that when handled properly
incest can contribute to a wonderful and incredibly loving relationship
between a girl and her immediate family. At the same time, I've seen
where incest is abused and used to molest children. Thus my cautionary
approach to incest for the general public.
Chapter 4 - Reasons for NOT Having Incest
=========================================
It should go without saying that having sex between family members is NOT
a requirement for establishing wholesome family values. Starting incest
will not cure a dysfunctional family. While in the short run it may help
to mask any issues, eventually they will come back out and when they do,
having incest to deal with as well will undoubtedly just make a bad
situation even worse.
There are a number of reasons why I strongly believe that the vast
majority of families are NOT functionally, emotionally or otherwise
equipped to deal with incest. Here are some of the major ones:
Incest is Not Accepted in Our Society
-------------------------------------
Face it, about the only time most people hear about incest is when it's
abused. Thus our society has developed its own rules and regulations
which makes incest taboo, not to mention illegal. People raised in this
atmosphere will naturally grow up thinking incest is bad. As a result
incest is not a secret to be shared with the neighborhood and I would bet
that most people have no idea that the neighbors next door are sleeping
together as a family.
Indeed, if such information WAS released in today's society it would
likely ruin the lives and reputations of the parents and stigmatize the
children. Keeping such an intimate and emotionally charged subject from
accidentally escaping can be extremely tasking and is realistically
beyond the capabilities of most families.
Unappealing Personal Looks and Hygiene
--------------------------------------
In many families there are legitimate issues with age differences and
personal image. Let's face it, unless they're a model or a movie star
most parents are NOT sexually appealing to their kids for the simple fact
they are OLD.
Just walk around any store and look at the people and it's obvious that
in many families one or both parents have let themselves go and are
frankly just unappealing - especially if you imagine them naked! I mean,
why would a girl want anything to do sexually with a father sporting a
beer gut covered in hair, smelling like cigarettes and beer?
Multiple Children at Varying Ages
---------------------------------
Most families have more than one child which creates a situation much
different from mine. I'm an only child so there were no issues of older
or younger children for my parents to deal with. The variations here are
endless - should you wait for the youngest to grow up but then do you
tell the oldest, especially if they have moved out? What about having
sex with the oldest when they are ready and thus having to hide it from
the youngest? It can get quite complicated ? overly so in most cases.
That said, I would have a hard time believing that it could really be
kept secret for long. Although I won't say incest should be limited to
single-child families, it certainly makes it easier when the children are
close in age because I don't believe incest should be hidden from anyone
in the family - even if everyone isn't actively involved. The more
people in the situation, the tougher this becomes to enforce. It's not
that it impossible, just more difficult and something that should be
thought through thoroughly before moving forward.
Lack of a Family History With Incest
------------------------------------
It helps a LOT if one or both of the parents were involved in an
incestual relationship when they were growing up. For instance, my mom's
father had sex with both of his daughters started when they were barely
teens and he continued having sex with them even after they were both
married. In this case both of them now had lived through it themselves
seeing it as a positive experience and thus they were anxious for their
own daughters to grow up enough to do the same. It also didn't hurt that
my father had fucked both my mom AND her sister while in high school
which made it easier for my mom to accept them being together sexually
even after they were married.
Given the family history, for my family the odds were pretty high that
incest would become part of my life when I was old enough. Needless to
say, most families do not have a similar history making it all new
territory to be learned and thus the potential for problems is
significantly increased. I don't mean to say that a family can't start
its own traditions, it's just that doing so is much more dangerous and
should be carefully considered as to whether the potential benefits
outweigh the risks.
It's Illegal
------------
Most religions forbid incest - note I say "religions" and not God (try
reading the whole Bible and not just Leviticus!) Many of our laws were
made to conform to onerous religious requirements. As the law makes it
illegal to have sex with a minor, even if everyone in the family is happy
with the situation, if some do-gooder found out and turned them in the
parents would be punished.
Again, let me make one thing perfectly clear - the mere fact that two
people share DNA does not disqualify them from having a sexual
relationship BUT just as important, nor does it mean they SHOULD. The
same principles that govern whether a person has sex with someone outside
the family should apply inside the family as well. While I believe a
girl SHOULD submit to her father, I also do not believe she MUST.
What saddens me is that unfortunately there are far too many sadistic and
perverted people who rationalize incest as an excuse to satisfy their own
selfish desires at the expense of their children. I am FIRMLY against
child abuse of any kind including sex before puberty and ANY form of non-
consensual sex, regardless of age. Because of the often well-publicized
actions of these horrible people, most people associate incest with eight
year-old children and leering adults who manipulate innocent kids into
doing things they don't understand - all of which is clearly wrong.
Incest also requires a certain attitude toward sex, the sort where sex is
accepted and handled responsibly. I first had sex when I was fourteen
with the sixteen year-old brother of one of my best friends and I've been
sexually active ever since. While I didn't fuck every guy in school, I
would have to say that almost all of my relationships included a degree
of sexual content to some degree including anything from playful petting
to full intercourse. Most people seem to find it surprising that I ended
up fucking only nine different guys by the time I graduated from high
school. Personally I don't think that is a particularly high number,
especially considering I was sucking just about every cock I could get my
mouth on!
I know today that my mom had sex with her father when she was barely a
teenager and that she was hoping for my sake that I would do the same
with my father, but it wasn't until I made the first move and eventually
joined them in bed that they revealed the things they were involved in.
For instance, while I've always known that my mom and her sister were
very close, I didn't know that they had a sexual relationship that
started when they were barely twelve and thirteen nor did I know my dad's
involvement with his sister-in-law until after I had sex with them both
individually.
Chapter 5 - Issues to be Addressed Before Incest
================================================
With all that said, if I was the one making the rules, anyone considering
incest would have to positively address ALL of the following:
Open Attitude Towards Sex
-------------------------
When the topic of incest is brought up it can't be the first time sex is
discussed openly in the family. If sex hasn't been openly discussed and
treated with respect and dignity along with personal responsibility, then
incest shouldn't even be discussed, let alone considered.
Another point is how a family regards the relationship between nudity and
sex. I don?t mean a family has lead a nudist lifestyle as mine certainly
didn't. Yet if a family can't shower or dress in front of one another
without embarrassment or it being viewed as something erotic, they
certainly aren't ready to have sex with one another. In the same manner,
just because people are comfortable being nude in front of each other
doesn't automatically mean they want to have sex. For example, while
I've never been to one from what I'm told virtually all nudist camps
forbid open displays of sex.
Old Enough to Consent
---------------------
Before having sex a girl or boy must be old enough to make an informed
and consensual decision. This will vary between kids and in extreme
cases may be as young as nine or ten but more likely at least twelve or
thirteen. For some it could be even older!
I know for myself that at fourteen I was mature enough to give up my
virginity but that was just with some boy for fun and had nothing to do
with incest. Even in the type of home atmosphere that I was raised in,
when I was fourteen my dad was just that - my dad. Oh I loved him for
sure but it was the love of a daughter for her father. My dad was also
an authority figure and the thought of having sex with him simply never
even crossed my mind. It wasn't until I was sixteen that I came to
comprehend the loving relationship between my parents sufficiently to
realize that it was something I wanted to share with them as well.
Physical Appearance
-------------------
While I hate to sound like a narcissist, there usually has to be some
physical attraction between the family members. This probably knocks out
95% of all families but what is the sense in having sex without it being
fun? If a mom and dad let themselves go physically, that's their
business but they shouldn't expect their teenager kids to look at them
with any thoughts of sex in mind! This doesn't mean parents have to be
movie stars or models, just that they don't make themselves unappealing
by lifestyle choices such as excessive eating or drinking.
For example, my dad isn't exactly trim and fit and while I think he looks
good, I also admit to being a little biased. Yet when we have sex I
don't even think about how he looks. Rather it's all about what we are
doing and what we are sharing. It's the emotional fulfillment I seek
when I am joined with my father much more so than the physical (although
I'll be the first to admit that I don?t mind it!)
Both Parents Need to Be Involved
--------------------------------
I don't necessarily mean physically as some people are not bisexual but
at least both should be fully aware of the situation. For instance, as a
general rule a husband should not have sex with his daughter unless his
wife gives her blessings first. This is true even, as happened in my own
situation, the daughter doesn't know that her mother has when her dad
first approaches her for sex.
It seems that incest tends to be more between a father and a daughter
than with a mother and son. I don't know why, maybe it's because for
some reason dads have a hard time accepting their wife having sex with
their son more so than a mother does in sharing her husband with her
daughter. I also think this may have something to do with the "macho
factor" because the odds that the father and son would ever have sex are
extremely low whereas a mother-daughter relationship is more easily
established once the husband fucks them both.
I'm sure some people will point out that my father and I were fooling
around with his younger brother and two of his kids without the knowledge
of his bitchy wife which is in direct contradiction to everything I've
just said. Well, it wasn't a simple decision and I dearly wish my aunt
had been more open-minded. However, given her strong moral convictions
it was either stay away entirely or do what we did. Considering the
experiences we've had dealing with the issues, we felt it was something
that could be dealt with and indeed, that was the case. I do NOT
recommend others try this unless they already have the family support
structure in place to support it.
Family Size
-----------
Finally, I believe that the odds of a successful incestual relationship
drop exponentially as the number of kids increases. First, not all
them may want to be involved. Also, as anyone who has ever had or worked
with kids knows, keeping secrets between kids is next to impossible. If
their ages are widely spread then it's probably best to either forget it
or wait until the youngest can join in. Remember, even the slightest
resistance MUST be interpreted as being unwilling since most kids want to
please their parents so an outright "no" may never come. Any lesser
standard would inevitably lead to child abuse. In my case, being an only
child made it easy although I admit at times I wish I had a brother or
sister.
Based on the above criteria, I figure that at least 99.9% of families
should NOT be involved in incest. Still, even if incest is not part of
their lives I still firmly believe that ALL families should treat sex
more openly and honestly than what seems to be the general practice these
days. After all, isn't it better to act responsibly and deal with the
issues of sex directly than to create perverts who go out and rape women
and abuse children because sex was such a tightly controlled thing in his
life that when he was finally "freed" he couldn't control himself?
Although I've focused on parent-child relationships, of course incest
doesn't necessarily have to involve parents and their children. For
instance, a brother and sister may be having sex without the knowledge of
their parents. While it would be better for the parents to at least
know and approve, even if they're not physically involved, it's natural
that most parents would not condone their children having sex with one
another. Personally, I don't understand why they would NOT encourage it
if for no other reason than to be able to watch and enjoy. One of the
most erotic nights in my life was when I helped a brother and sister fuck
each other for the first time!
Of course sibling incest need not be restricted to just teenagers. I
helped my freshman roomie to be with her older brother and he was married
with two kids at the time! I think that in some ways it's easier for
brothers and sisters to practice incest with each other than with their
parents because it avoids the age difference issue (which may also
include age of consent problems).
Chapter 6 - The Benefits of Incest
==================================
For those rare situations that DO meet the conditions AND there is an
interest in it, incest can be a marvelous means to bring a family closer
together. After all, how can I stay mad with my dad when I feel his
erect cock sliding inside of me? Likewise, no matter what I've done, how
upset can he stay with me when I suck his cock and take his sperm as my
way of asking for forgiveness? It's amazing what a little spontaneous
sex can do to bring everyone back together again no matter what the cause
of the quarrel may have been.
After all this, when you boil it down there are essentially two reasons I
enjoy incest:
First, there is an incredible love and passion that comes naturally with
incest. I love my parents and family so how can I possibly express it
more than by giving myself to them completely? What most people don't
understand is that I don't have sex with my dad to SHOW him I love him, I
ALLOW him to fuck me because I love him. Hopefully you understand the
subtle difference.
Nothing compares to the joy I feel when my father's hard cock penetrates
deep inside of me, not even with my husband. When I allow my daddy to
physically couple himself with me, to feel our bodies joined in the most
intimate manner that a man and woman can, I feel like I'm demonstrating
to him in a way like nothing else I can do just how much I love him and
want to submit myself to him. When I feel his incestuous erection inside
of me I know we've become one body and there's nothing left for me to
give than I already am at that moment. When his cock erupts and his
sperm explodes deep within me I know without a shred of doubt that I've
satisfied him, that I've fulfilled the sexual lust built up within him
using my own body, my own sex, to give him the most sacred thing I can
give to anyone - ME.
In comparison to my dad, where sex is largely my way of satisfying his
physical needs, being in bed with my mother is more emotionally
stimulating. Not to say at all sex with my dad isn't an emotional time
for me! So many times I end up crying with the joy he gives me. But
with my mom we kiss like lovers, not parent and child. My mother is so
passionate with me, so loving, it's almost overwhelming. To feel her
warm naked body pressed against mine, to lick her pussy where I was
conceived and born, to feel her tongue on my pussy where her husband
fucks me, to have her lick his cum from me, all these things fill my soul
and complete me as a woman and daughter.
The other reason I enjoy incest is so obvious I don't know why I even
have to mention it. Having sex with my family is simply physically
enjoyable. It was (and still is) exciting and quite erotic knowing that
my father was free to approach to me at virtually any time and fuck me or
whatever else he wanted from me. Like if I was watching TV or chatting
on the computer or my phone and found myself turned on by whatever was
happening, I wasn't embarrassed in the slightest to masturbate even if my
parents were around. Heck, if anything it turned me on all the more! I
loved wearing just a short tight T-shirt or one of my dad's dress shirts
with nothing on my bottom and in general that's all I ever wore around
the house growing up.
Similarly, my aunt and cousin always felt free to stop over any time and
do whatever they needed or wanted without having to sneak around or worry
about being "caught". In short, sex has always been an integral part of
our lives, something to be enjoyed and shared openly rather than some
mysterious affair full of taboos and rituals. It's NOT "naughty" or
anything perverted or nasty in the slightest.
In closing I hope this has helped to explain my situation better to those
who haven't understood it so well. Please don't judge me by the
standards of a society dominated by ancient theology and mythology.
Unfortunately, the odds are that incest was never right for you but don't
let that bias you from acknowledging that for some people it is so allow
them to enjoy it and stop criticizing and ostracizing them!
Chapter 7 - Questions and Answers About Incest
==============================================
Q: As a Christian, how can you condone incest?
A: First of all, why do people automatically assume that having sex in an
incestual relationship is a sin? It's an inhibition put upon us by
overbearing religious institutions and zealots than anything to do with
God. Incest is NOT adultery, so that's not an issue. God created us as
sexual beings and made sex to be more than an act of reproduction. Why
would we NOT want to use all the gifts we have been given when it comes
time to express our deepest and more heart-felt feelings for those in our
own family?
Actually the question is misleading as it implies that as a Christian I
shouldn't be involved in incest. I see it as exactly the opposite.
From Exodus 20:
Commandment #5: Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be
long.
Commandment #7: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Seems pretty straightforward to me but for those who need more of an
explanation, God clearly states that you shall NOT commit adultery and
that you SHALL honor your father and mother. Some people, me included,
interpret "honor" to include submission to their authority and sexual
needs. To draw the line of submission at the act of sex seems rather
arbitrary and not in keeping with the meaning of the scripture. For me,
I would be honoring my parents by giving myself to them. After all, what
greater sign of respect and honor can a daughter give to her parents than
to offer her own body to them totally and without any restraint? In
addition, how can I say that I truly honor and respect them if I deny
myself to their immediate family as well?
In summary, to both not commit adultery AND honor your parents after
marriage, to me that means not having sex outside my immediate family
with first cousins, nieces and nephews being the absolute limit. My
parents have subscribed to this practice their entire marriage and I'm
convinced that it has been a major contributor to the indisputable
success of their marriage. OK, my father slipped with my best friend
Beth a couple of times but she was practically family at the time and I'm
sure God has forgiven him for his indiscretion.
********
Q: How old should my daughter be before we have sex?
A: Easily the most asked question. Here are three principles that guide
my thoughts and actions regarding underage sex:
1. The needs of the child ALWAYS come first. When it comes to sex or
anything even remotely related to it, if there is ANY doubt then don't
do it. It is ALWAYS better to err on the side of caution. I abhor
child abuse, especially sexual molestation and exploitation. People
who abuse children deserve the maximum punishment allowable.
2. Sex between adults and underage kids is illegal in the USA and most
countries. Thus as a general rule I don't condone sex between adults
and minors, even when it's incestual, as it rarely can be kept a
secret. Even in those cases where the opportunity is there, careful
consideration is required beforehand as to the potential
psychological, physical, moral, ethical and legal ramifications.
3. Incestual sex, at least when practiced properly and NOT as a
rationalization for child abuse, is different from "regular" sex in
that family love and support mechanisms are present. As a result the
"rules" for underage sex in incestual situations can be less
restrictive.
Here's a summary of my views. Read my article on "Underage Sex" for more
details.
Infant (7 and under)
--------------------
YES: familiarization with nudity with instruction regarding modesty
Limit information to that needed for protection from predators
NO: ANY sexual activity including oral sex and fondling of sex organs
ANY involvement in sexual activities, e.g. watching sex
ANY detailed discussions about sex
Exposure to pornographic images
I have to admit to being on the line when it comes to oral sex. If there
was some way to ensure that things stayed confined to oral sex then I'd
probably condone it but most people simply can't properly deal with such
complications so best to err on the side of caution.
Child (8-9)
-----------
YES: hand stimulation - self and others
observation of masturbation
discussions about sex focusing on the mechanics and safety
oral sex
NO: sex (penetration)
observing sex, real or through multimedia (porn), other than family
Oral should be promoted at this age as it can help to bridge between the
age of blissful ignorance and the beginnings of sex.
Preteen (10-12)
---------------
YES: masturbation
Oral sex
sex with another underage partner
incestual sex with an adult
sex with an adult under the supervision of parents
NO: unsupervised non-incestual sex with an adult
Condoning sex with this age with an adult is something that I've only
condoned in recent years based entirely on personally witnessing such
activity and seeing for myself the reactions of the kids. The catch is
it must be supervised by their parents or family member. In the case of
incest, self-supervision can be employed.
Teen (13-17)
------------
YES: sex with any partner
NO: only what their personal convictions do not allow (anal, etc.)
If you're going to condone preteen sex with adults, then it's pretty hard
not to allow teens the same rights with even more flexibility. Of course
this all should be closely monitored and in cases supervised by parents
depending on the maturity level.
********
Q: You often tell people you don't support underage sex yet you just
stated that it's OK for parents to have sex with their preteen children
and for teens to have unlimited sex. Aren't you being a bit
hypocritical?
A: Not at all. I feel there are very strict limits when it comes to
underage sex and when people ask me about it they want a simple answer
and not one that takes a lecture to get across. Thus I say I don't
support it and then if we get into a more detailed discussion I can
explain my full position on the subject.
Incest is sex within a family and as such involves relationships and
emotional bonding that simply don't exist between an adult and a child
from different families. When a typical adult has sex with a preteen or
it would be strictly for their sexual gratification without the love and
respect a parent should have for their children. There is no need for
the adult to worry about the long-term impact (unless the authorities
find out) which takes away even more of the "protection" inherent in a
family relationship. Hence my requirement that the parents be involved
if it's non-incestual sex.
Sex between an adult and a child from another family is pedophilia and
illegal for good reasons. I do NOT condone it in any way, shape or
manner and I do NOT wish to encourage it in any way. If you want to
fantasize about it, go right ahead - just so long as you can keep your
fantasies from intruding into reality. If you can't control yourself,
seek help!
In contrast, sex between a parent and a child is incest and thus
acceptable. While technically illegal in our society today, that's a
cultural issue, not an ethical or even biblical one.
********
Q: My incredibly cute twelve year-old daughter loves to sit on my lap
wearing nothing but her tight cotton panties and a short T-shirt which do
little to hide anything. Feeling her little firm butt rubbing against
me, I can't help but get an instant erection. While I don't think she
realizes how she's affecting me, I'm afraid that sooner or later I'm not
going to be able to hold myself back. What should I do?
A: C'mon dad, if you think by the time she reaches that age that she
hasn't already noticed what's happening underneath her when she sits on
your lap? Like get a clue! When I was a tween my dad would often get a
a full-blown erection when I sat on his lap and trust me, there was no
way for me NOT to notice the growing bulge underneath me.
The problem you face is that at her age a girl doesn't necessarily
associate an erection with any sort of sexual attraction to her (again,
forget the Internet and porn movie crap). When I was eight years old, I
watched my dad masturbate. My mom, seeing my curiosity, had me give him
a hand-job that evening in the hot tub as a means to help me to
understand what he was doing. Of course I was fascinated by what
happened and I felt happy because I knew I'd done something to please my
dad. However, I didn't have a clue that what happened had anything to do
with me other than I was the one touching him instead of him using his
own hand.
If you feel you HAVE to do SOMETHING... next time she's on your lap and
you're about to lose control, try allowing your hard cock to
"accidentally" slip out of your shorts for her to see it or even rub it
up against her. While she MIGHT be interested, before you get your hopes
up keep in mind that it is likely only her natural curiosity and not
necessarily the result of any sexual intent. Of course the danger in
doing anything such as this is that given the lust you'd be feeling at
that moment, you'd likely misinterpret her interest for a sexual overture
which could lead you to do something she had no intention of encouraging
or even realizing that she could.
Now don't get me wrong, sporting an erection around your daughter is
nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed of; just don't expect her to react
to it sexually until she gets older and even then she may not. Growing
up, if I saw my dad with an erection all the time so I just assumed that
he was feeling good about something since whenever I saw him like that he
seemed happy.
********
Q: Sometimes when I see my fourteen year-old daughter sleeping I can't
help but jerk off while watching her. Is it OK to touch her or even
cum on her so long as I don't wake her?
A: Believe it or not, someone actually asked me this question in an
e-mail and I've chatted with men who claimed that they wanted to do this
very thing. I guess so long as she doesn't wake up it's OK but what are
the odds she won't and then what happens? If she does wake up, are you
prepared for the potential horrendous consequences since it's obvious you
haven't taken into account my other rules about incest?
This illustrates one of my biggest issues with porn. No, it's not that I
feel it degrades women, or any of the other stock answers although those
are legitimate gripes. What really bugs me about porn is that guys watch
it and think it reflects real life. Well, if you think your daughter is
going to react like some porn star, waking up and out of nowhere just
start sucking your cock and then begging her daddy to fuck her, you can
just forget it. Unless you already have something going on with her,
doing anything to your daughter in her sleep is just asking for trouble.
Doing so would be all about YOUR lust as there's no love, intimacy or
respect involved which is an essential part of a healthy incestuous
relationship. Again, how would you explain it if she were to wake up and
see her daddy jerking off on her? What are the odds she won?t tell her
mother?
Again, forget the fantasy sex scene in your favorite porn movie. She's
NOT going to wake up as some hot and horny sex kitten, craving sex with
Her daddy. The odds are far more likely that she'll be traumatized and
tell your wife, ruining the possibility of any future intimate
relationship although under the circumstances that would probably be the
least of your concerns!
Masturbation is a natural human response and if you want jerk off as you
fantasize about molesting your sleeping daughter then what's the harm?
Just don't grope the poor girl for God's sake or worse, cum on her!
Remember, you're a father, not a pervert, so grow up and act like one.
********
Q: My fifteen year-old daughter dresses in sexy and suggestive outfits
and she flirts with me constantly. Is she hinting that she wants to
have sex with me?
A: Sorry, in such situations the odds are almost 100% it's just the
opposite in that she does NOT want sex with you. In fact the reality is
much more likely to be that she would be appalled if she knew that's what
you were thinking. However, don't take this in a negative way. It's not
that she rejects the idea of having sex with you but more that the very
concept of incest isn't something she's ever even seriously considered.
Even after I started having sex with boys at school I never once thought
of doing it with my dad until a couple of years after losing my virginity
and that includes all those times in our hot tub sitting naked on his lap
feeling him all erect and hard under my butt!
Remember, you're her FATHER, not a boyfriend or even a stranger. At her
age you're the one man she respects and trusts more than anyone else in
the world - despite how she might act outwardly. Most girls love to
flirt and it's a natural and vital part of maturing as it serves as a
means of validating her self-worth and builds up her self-confidence.
Odds are that your daughter feels comfortable "flirting" with you because
she trusts that you will NOT react the way other men would. By the same
token, don't feel you have to ignore her actions either - a few
appropriate compliments can never hurt. Remember the "self-worth" and
"self-confidence" thing? Just don't flirt back for heaven's sake! It
will just weird her out and she won't understand why you're doing it, not
to mention she'll probably tell your wife!
Speaking from personal experience, what most daughters don't understand
as teenagers is that their dad is still a man and as such is quite
capable of harboring sexual feelings toward a young hot girl, even his
own daughter. When she wears that sexy outfit and sits suggestively on
your lap she's acting out her own fantasies knowing she can trust you not
to take advantage of her like any other man would. Trust me, if she
REALLY wanted sex with you you'd know it. There's a HUGE difference
between sitting on daddy's lap and reaching in his pants for his cock!
********
Q: When we were younger my sister and I use to fool around and even went
so far as to touch each other sexually while "playing doctor". Now that
we're older, how can I rekindle that relationship?
A: Sorry, you've almost certainly missed your window of opportunity, if
one even ever existed in the first place which odds are it didn't. As an
adult, if she's not letting you know she's interested then she's not.
Like I've said before, forget all the crap you read on the Internet! You
were both young and did the sort of innocent things many kids do as just
a natural part of growing up. Unfortunately for you, now you're adults
and those days are gone except in your wet dreams. If you want my
opinion, masturbate about your sister and leave it at that.
Note that I'd apply this same advice to any other family members with
whom you may fantasize about having a sexual relationship. In my opinion
a healthy and successful incestual lifestyle is just that - a lifestyle.
Thus if you raised your daughter in a "normal" family atmosphere where
sex is kept secret, masturbation is taboo, any sexual discussion are
limited at best and uncomfortable, nudity is forbidden, etc., now that
she's graduated from college and moved away from home why would you think
you're going to somehow get something sexual started? Sure there are
exceptions to every rule but just as someone always wins the lottery,
odds are you won't and the same goes to starting an incestual
relationship later in life.
********
Q: What's the signal that it's OK to have incest with my daughter?
A: In my opinion that depends to a large extent how the entire subject of
sex has been handled in your family. If you don't discuss sex in the
same as any other topic, odds are pretty high that the right atmosphere
doesn't exist. A healthy incestual lifestyle requires a level of trust
and family intimacy that isn't developed overnight.
When people ask me this question, usually the first thing I ask them is
how masturbation has been addressed in their family. Is it something
that's only done in private and otherwise treated as taboo, or even
erotic? Can you openly discuss masturbation without it becoming a "sex
talk"? Are you comfortable masturbating if your daughter's around and
vice versa? I mean doing it when the other person just happens to be in
the room, NOT putting on some kind of perverted show. Sexual candidness
is a prerequisite for incest, not a result. How can you expect your
daughter to feel empowered to initiate sex with you if something as basic
and universal as masturbation is a taboo subject?
Essentially I would answer this by telling someone to read this article
and after doing so, do you think you're ready? It bears repeating that
if you're not 100% sure then you're not ready.
********
Q: Your responses to most questions regarding incest are generally pretty
negative yet at the same time you claim to enjoy it yourself. Why all
the pessimism?
A: My dad once told me that if you have to ask the price of a yacht you
can't afford one. The same concept applies to incest. If you have to
ask me about it then you probably shouldn't be doing it.
When it comes to incest the rules are a LOT different than ordinary sex
with a boyfriend. Bad sex with a boyfriend becomes a bad memory that you
try to forget and avoid in the future. A botched attempt at incest can
ruin a family forever. Is the risk really worth it?
You can't seduce your daughter the way you did your wife. If your
daughter doesn't make it perfectly clear that she wants to have sex with
you, she doesn't or at least not deep in her heart where such desires
needs to originate. Most girls get a crush on their dads at some stage
but it's just a natural part of growing up to form an emotional bond
with the man you absolutely adore and trust. For the vast majority of
girls such a crush eventually matures into a healthy father-daughter
relationship albeit one that does NOT include anything sexual.
I've seen many girls flirt with and tease their dads but it's just for
fun and more a sign of her trust in him than any form of lust for him.
No girl should EVER be made to feel that she has to submit herself
physically to her father in order to win his love. For example, I know
without a shred of doubt that I don't NEED to have sex with my dad to
prove anything. Rather I have sex with my father BECAUSE I love and
respect him which is a BIG difference. In my opinion, putting a daughter
on a guilt trip just to have sex with her would be one of the worst forms
of abuse a father could ever commit against his daughter.
The key is that I WANT to give myself to my dad which is an entirely
different thing from feeling I HAVE to. For me it is an extension of the
same love and respect I would show him even if he didn't want to fuck me.
You don't need incest to have a close relationship with your daughter so
unless it's 100% obvious that the desire is in her to share herself with
you in that way, stay away from incest and simply enjoy each other the
way you are.
At the same time, if an opportunity for incest DID arise, it would be a
tragedy NOT to take advantage of the situation and realize the incredible
benefits that can arise from a healthy sexual relationship between a
father and daughter. I would never want to discourage "good" incest. I
just feel an obligation to warn people about the many pitfalls and make
the think a little before they do anything rash that could ruin their
lives and families.
********
Q: My wife's friend is hot and I think she's interested in me. What
should I do? My wife would kill me if she ever found out I did anything.
A: First of all you're considering committing adultery, not incest, so
the question doesn't even really apply in this article. To me it's
really pretty simple and straightforward. Given that the admonishment
against adultery is one of the Ten Commandments in the Bible that alone
should be enough to tell you how God feels about it and thus how you
should as well. If sinning against God doesn't bother you then it
becomes a marital issue for you to deal with. In any case, it has
nothing to do with incest.
********
Q: My wife's sister is hot and I think she's interested in me. What
should I do? My wife would never understand though.
A: There is a significant difference between this question and the
previous one since her sister became a part of your family once you were
married and thus having sex with her would be an act of incest, NOT
adultery. While it may be biblically permissible the question is not
what you CAN do but rather if it's what you SHOULD do. If your wife is
OK with it then I'd say go for it but in your case you need to decide
whether the potential consequences are worth it.
When you consider doing this it's a similar process as deciding whether
to have sex with your daughter except now you're dealing with a more
mature woman which makes it easier as you don't have to deal with the
maturity issues. Is she married? If so, then that makes it bit more
complicated, especially if her husband isn't on-board with the idea.
Don't ignore your potentially biggest ally - your wife. First, she had
better approve of anything you do with her sister BEFORE you make a move.
Also, if anyone would know she would be the one who could tell you if her
sister is just flirting or has a real interest in you. Even if they
haven't discussed it women instinctively know these things, trust me. If
your wife approves of the idea but doesn't want to be involved herself,
she could at least help get you and her sister together and thus make it
a lot easier for you.
********
Q: Do you know of anyone else that has had a positive experience with
incest?
A: Actually, outside my family in real life it's a pretty small list but
that doesn't surprise me in the least. Other than my best friend Beth
who has fucked her brother, that's about it outside the families we've
met through our swapping group. I've never told anyone outside my family
except Beth about my incestuous relationships. For all I know, some of
my girlfriends could be doing the same thing with their fathers as I do
yet I've no more idea about their activities than they do about mine.
When incest becomes public knowledge the odds are almost 100% that it's
about a BAD relationship rather than a good one. Our society is not
supportive of incest and legal issues are also a concern so I can't
imagine any family with a healthy incestual relationship allowing anyone
outside their family to know about it.
********
Q: I subscribe to web sites about incest and chat in a number of incest
chat rooms. Why is it that what you say about incest so different from
what all the others say in these forums?
A: Well duh! If you believe anything people say on those sites then I
have a wonderful bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
The difference is simple - what I describe here is reality, not fantasy.
Admittedly I've only looked briefly at those types of sites (they disgust
me) but from what I've seen they're nothing but perverted male fantasies
or if true then confessions of child abuse and/or rape. It's sort of
like porn movies in that you don't really think THEY reflect real life,
do you?
My advice is to enjoy the incest sites on the Internet as motivation for
your masturbation fantasies if that sort of thing gets you off but
PLEASE, don't make ANY decisions about your real life and your daughter
based on the ideas and "advice" you get from these ridiculous sources.
********
Q: I understand all you say but I still want to try to start something
with my daughter. She's fourteen, crazy cute and I think she might be
interested. How do I start?
A: A wise man once said, "Everything before 'But' is bullshit."
That said... First of all, I hope you understand by now that I think
you're totally wrong to do this and at best a fool, and probably a
pervert one at that. However, if you're bound and determined to go
through with it anyway I guess the least I can do is offer some advice to
hopefully minimize the damage as odds are there will be lots of it before
things are over.
As I've said earlier in this posting, based on my own experiences I
believe that there should be a strong family support or history of incest
in the family for incest to work in the current family structure.
Lacking this, then you must first establish an atmosphere of trust from a
sexual perspective. The most direct means doing this is through
masturbation. If your daughter is too shy to let you watch her
masturbate, then what ever would make you think she would suck your cock,
let alone allow you to fuck her? If she's offended at the sight of her
dad jerking off, then how can you expect her to let you cum on her face
or in her mouth?
I can't emphasize enough that masturbation is THE key to opening up a
more intimate relationship with your daughter. Masturbation is a natural
function that almost everyone does and if she's at least eleven or twelve
then trust me she does it. Thus it allows for you to broach the subject
of sex without the dangers inherent in going straight to initiating
something physical between the two of you. My advice is to start by
allowing her to "catch" you masturbating and then gage her reaction.
For heaven's sake PLEASE don't push it! I wouldn't even let her know
that you know she's watching at first. Slow and steady is the only way
for this to work so be patient. If she's interested the natural
response would be for her to let you "catch" her doing herself. In this
way you both have signaled your willingness to be more open sexually
without making any commitment. If she's offended or even disgusted at
seeing her father jerking off then please give it up and quit while
you're ahead. At least at that point you can explain it as a mistake
which is a lot easier than trying to explain to the authorities why you
tried groping her while she sat on your lap.
Assuming you've both now demonstrated an interest through semi-private
masturbation, the next step would be to be more open about it. Invite
her in your room and then jerk off in front of her while the two of you
are watching a TV show and someone turns you on (my dad could never keep
his cock in his pants when we watched StarGate SG1 and Amanda Tapping
appeared on the screen!). This provides yet another opportunity to
confirm her sexual intentions without having to make a physical
commitment.
Assuming she's ok with you jerking off in front of her, you can move to
the next step but ONLY if her response is to respond in kind by allowing
you to see her openly masturbate. Once she feels comfortable touching
herself while you're watching, THEN you can feel confident enough to
approach her, preferably while she's horny and masturbating. If she
ignores you, forget it. She's probably too embarrassed to say anything
directly so feigning a lack of interest is her way of saying you've gone
a bridge too far.
If this all sounds too hard or complicated, then my advice is to just
forget it. The bottom line is that you need to take a gradual approach
to incest in such a manner that allows your daughter to "opt out" at any
point without making a big issue out of it.
********
Q: I'm a happily married man and been heterosexual all my life but yet
I'm interested in my son in a sexual way. Any ideas for approaching him?
A: I have no experience with this but my guess would be to approach it
similar to a daughter except now you're adding in the homosexual factor -
as if incest wasn't enough to deal with! I just see lots of
complications.
********
Q: My husband wants to have sex with our thirteen year-old daughter but
he expects me to help get things started between them. I'm not even sure
I want them together in the first place but I also want to please my
husband. What should I do?
A: This seems at first to be a simple problem but it's actually quite
complex as it pits your obligations to submit to your husband against
your responsibilities as a mother. My first reaction to this question
was to say to not do anything which would be in accordance with
my first rule of incest, "if you're not 100% sure about it then DON'T DO
IT!!!!" But then when I started to ponder it more the issue of your
submission to your husband come into the picture as well. So what takes
precedence, your obligations to daughter or your husband?
In the end as his wife you need to submit to your husband's wishes. Your
husband is the head of the household and as such he is the one to who
makes the final decisions. I would only hope you have the opportunity to
share with him some of the things I've said in this article which may
persuade him to act differently. Should he insist on moving forward with
your daughter then I can only hope that you do everything you in your
power to make it as meaningful and memorable for her as well.
********
Q: When all's said and done, what's the biggest thing to keep in mind
when considering whether or not to engage in incest?
A: Remember the rules I stated earlier this article. Keep in mind that I
would estimate that 99.99% of all families should NOT engage in incest so
odds are you should NOT do it. However, if a genuine opportunity should
arise, I would hope that you take advantage of it. The result could well
be a more wonderful relationship with your son or daughter than you ever
imagined possible.
PLEASE - always put your son or daughter's safety and well-being first.
Do NOT do anything that could possibly harm anyone just to satisfy your
own sexual desires and cravings. ALWAYS err on the side of caution.
ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS:
YOU CAN LOVE YOUR DAUGHTER JUST AS MUCH WITHOUT FUCKING HER!
THE END